tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637370.post112589374064661653..comments2024-03-20T16:00:29.394+11:00Comments on Touched By The Son: I slam, you slam, we all slam for IslamBerko Willshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03071651884274086458noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637370.post-1126087420480949222005-09-07T20:03:00.000+10:002005-09-07T20:03:00.000+10:00Chris, you could well be right about Islamic leade...Chris, you could well be right about Islamic leaders being gunshy about criticising too strenuously the actions of the radicals. Though I don't think even the mildest Christian cleric would hesitate to speak against perverse interpretations of Christianity such as that practiced by the Ku Klux Klan or various Christian militia. They mightn't offer it up as their first choice of subject for a sermon but address it as it it is put in front of them.<BR/><BR/>This is because of a weakening of western faith, a need to be accommodating and to keep pace with materialist progress in ethics. For whatever reason (I suspect the severe injunctions that remain against criticising holy word) Islam only co-exists with a freer social structure in some states - perhaps the ones you see as the targets for reform.<BR/><BR/>I think universal Islam is the goal as much as universal Christianity is for Christians. They are creed religions, not communal ones. You have to jump through hoops to convince the elders you are serious about 'becoming a Jew' whereas any reformed junkie in the mall will sign you up to a christian sect meeting in a hired hall.<BR/><BR/>Christians used to be particularly savage about showing people the light, now they can claim to possess more reason than Moslems as they mainly cajole peacefully.<BR/><BR/>Sherry, I agree that Pakistani refugees cheering the 9/11 attacks are no better than Pat proposing assassination. You have to wonder at the mentality of people who can confuse idealogy with human life - the latter is far more precious.<BR/><BR/>Of course I have no doubt that the Iraq invasion stirred up a hornet's nest and gave fuel to the conflict. But no lasting victory can come from violent acts: you have to persuade the enemy or opponent that your belief is greater.<BR/><BR/>Well I agree that this is a bad thing to do. I think it's good if people (can) put out searching criticism of a belief system without being threatened. I'm very suspicious of the efficacy of any thing that uses anything other than clear eyed logic to question its assumptions. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in finding the verse of scripture that feeds one's own hobbyhorse.Berko Willshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03071651884274086458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637370.post-1125948644948535542005-09-06T05:30:00.000+10:002005-09-06T05:30:00.000+10:00hi, i think there are as many different reasons as...hi, i think there are as many different reasons as there are people for the response or seeming lack thereof.<BR/><BR/>there are, i'm sure muslims that are afraid or were afraid to comment, there are,i'm sure, people that are openly or secretly pleased that there are terrorists in their religion, think them warriors and martyrs. who knows all of the reasons people do or say or think as they do.<BR/><BR/>there were also some muslim leaders that did speak out against terrorism, but they were ignored by the media in the beginings of all of this because it wasn't the typre of thing that sold papers or kept viewers. hatred and fear sell papers, make for big ratings. it also makes for a country or countries that will react out of anger and fear and vengence giving their governments a green light to fight wars wherever they chose without real proof of a threat. that's nothing new.<BR/>i have known and know, people of all faiths or none. they are remarkably the same as any other group of people. some good, some bad, most just average, everyday people trying to get along in life as best they can.<BR/>as to islam and some leaders, i don't see any difference between an islamic cleric spouting hate and murder and pat robertson calling for the assasination of another country's leader as he did recently about chevaz or the deaths of supreme court justices.<BR/><BR/>hate is hate. there's enough to go around. <BR/><BR/>there are awful passages in the christian bible. christians, choose ,for the most part, to realize that life is different now. there is stoning in the old testament. christians study the old testament as well as the new, but pick and choose the passages, again for the most part that make sense in today's world.<BR/><BR/>i can not believe that any "God" needs human beings to force others to worship one way or another. "God" i would think, is more than able to do whatever "God" would choose, without our help. to think otherwise seems. arrogant.Sherry Pasquarellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06107407102753464356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7637370.post-1125918701388938202005-09-05T21:11:00.000+10:002005-09-05T21:11:00.000+10:00Hello Berko--You wrote: "So why don't the ayatolla...Hello Berko--<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "So why don't the ayatollahs and imams and suchlike join forces in quelling a movement that is causing Islam almost irreparable damage? There are a few possibilities. They may be only giving lip service to the opposition while secretly supporting the bombings. Community leaders seem to inhabit a sliding scale of more or less sanctioning these acts. Or, and here is the point I wish to make, there may be no avenue for them to say that the terrorists are working against what it says in the Koran because they are spiritually in line with the teachings - a true application and not a perverse interpretation."<BR/><BR/>I think the leaders of Islam are threatened by the radicals, and are afraid to act against them. So it perhaps isn't as much that they are in agreement with them but more that they feel unable to take a stand fearing for their own positions and reluctant to alienate both the radicals and their own followers.<BR/><BR/>I do think the key to the problems of the Middle East and the Islamic world lies with Islam itself to straighten out, and it isn't something the West or non-Muslims can do. But the question is whether they will be able to straighten things out. Possibly not while the firebrands seem to have the incentive. <BR/><BR/>The Middle East and Islam are in turmoil and the radicals seem to be able to act with impunity in places like Egypt or Pakistan, Indonesia or the U.S. The West fails to understand that Osama bin Laden and his ilk want to overthrow the governments of the Middle East first and foremost, rather than hit U.S. skyscrapers. The West is not the primary target, although world domination by radical Islam might be the ultimate objective.Christopher T. Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15101693208817631514noreply@blogger.com